| From: | ORHUN KABAKLI |
| Date: | 7 Sep 2001 at 23:33:39 |
| Subject: | Hot Discussion :) |
Hi we are having really hot disscussion in voyager mailing list :)))
here is one of my mails.
On 07-Sep-01, you wrote:
>
> ORHUN KABAKLI wrote:
>
>> I am talking about Amiga.. And yes Warp3d is the most efficient 3d API in
>> any platform.. It makes Heretic2 and Shogo run faster then those on PC
>> with faster CPU and same Permedia2 (even with slower bus)
>
> Ehm, not Warp3D speeded up the ports but the huge optimising by Hyperion
> in the actual game code. You know without these parts (mainly memory
> management) you'd have required 128+MB and virtual memory which is not
> available in AmigaOS.
Then we should use another 3d API instead? A faster one programmed by
PowerUp authors? Warp3d is fast.
By the way Warp3d is being converted to fully ppc by H&P.
They are doing one hell of a job.. Everything will be ready on time. :)
>
>> Then why are Warpup software I use are always faster than PowerUp
>> software?
>
> Example please. Most software is available for PowerUp and WarpOS, I never
> felt any speedups when I used the WarpOS version instead of the PowerUp
> version. The speedups you are talking about where in the fist beta version
> of PowerUp which never got released. AFAIK there was a bug which made the
> context switch really slow and H&P saw this, compared it with WarpUp and
> then made this speed statement. But in the final release the bug was fixed
> and you couldn't find any significant speedup using WarpUp.
>
I always used the latest flashroms
I always have felt the speedups.. Try following to be convinced. If I am
wrong, i will agree I am stupid.
For example try powerup and warpup SubSpace plugin for AmigaAmp see the
HUGE speed increase! :)
PowerUp: between 12-15 and that effect is here.. smooth,pause,smooth,pause
Warpup : 18FPS and always smooth .. Only limited by CVisionPPC Someone with Voodoo3 told me it runs at 30fps
And try the TranceTunnelPlugin.. Powerup version is even slower than it
running on a 030 ! :/ (it is faster if you increase number of particles. 68K
cannot keep up with PPC) There are lots of pauses. (caused by context
swithces. And emptying buffers each time) it looks smooth,pause,smooth,pause..
Try to make caches of AmigaAmp bigger.. And you will see 1 second (!!!) pauses
with PowerUp plugins.
Try warpmame.. it runs much smoother then PowerUp version. "MUCH MORE"
try warpup datatypes. faster.
Have you seen Flash plugin for voyager? And have you seen how slow it is?
Mainly all those pauses? This is because it is programmed for powerup..
* If it was programmed for warpup, it would have been at leat 3 times faster
in my opinion. (in fact 320 240 anim could be 25fps with sound enabled thrugh AHI)
**The most important advantage in using Warpos is that if used in CPU
intensive tasks, ppc does the hard work thus leaving 68k mostly idle..
And since AmigaOS3.x is an 68k os, it makes a huge differencey.
I have been asking for Warpup picture decoders. But this idea is simply
found "stupid" This is why Voyager is the slowest browser. Others have the
capability to use warpos datatypes or plugins. thus freeing 68k to do table
layouting and everything more efficiently. Here AWeb decodes image sooo fast
using the warpup jpeg plugin.. That I can even scrol down the page smoothly
while lots of images are being decoded.. And my 68060 dits idle :)
>> PowerUp boards are badly designed hardware.. And Warpos makes best use of
>> this. (Morphos is better.. But not fully functional.
>
> Define fully functional. WarpUp isn't. There are problems with IFusion and
> BlizzardPPC cards because of a bug in WarpUp. H&P doesn't have a BlizzPPC
> and has a limited knowledge about the hardware. So it's hard for them to
> fix the bug.
And this shows a problem with BlizzardPPC's. Am I wrong? They have limited
knowledge with hardware.. But they had ideas to improve the boards.. Thus
making context swithes unnecessary.
Warpup is not bug free.. But it certainly is more bug free than Morphos..
And it does not hack into hardware directly. (btw disabling my 060-50 sounds
increadibly sad.. I paid a huge amount of money for it.. :( )
(But Morphos is better still I can scroll in Multiview increadibly fast :)
and all those Morphos programs are nice) But emulated 68k is slower than my
060-50 :( I am sure another option exists. That makes full use of 68k and
ppc without context switches)
My CyberStorm 604e 233Mhz frequently crashed.. Until I installed a patch
called CSPPC233FIX(both powerup and waros version available) programmed by Frank Wille (programmer of ppc.library emulation under Warpos.. and lots more. It makes powerup programs run faster)
>
>> And still beta. And they will demand money I think..
>
> And Amiga doesn't for OS4?
AmigaOS4 is the official new OS of Amiga computer...
It is not another kernel for AmigaOS3.. We are moving.. We are not looking
back.. We are back for the future! You will be surprised how good AmigaOS
4.0 will be.. Some old Amiga users will come back when they see it in news!!! :))
>
>>> Sure, they help people by reverse engineering software, abusing their
>>> beta tester position and selling software they don't own. So kind of
>>> them..
>>
>> Can you explain it more?
>
> H&P got a free PPC developer board and some more information about the
> hardware to port StormC to PowerUp/elf. Instead they developed WarpUp.
I'm glad.. Or I would be using PowerUp by now !!! (And Morphos would not
have existed) I am glad
>
> The second statement is, if I remember correctly, that H&P sells Genesis
> together with OS3.9. However Genesis is based on AmiTCP and H&P never got
> a license to sell it. So you could say they are selling unlicensed aka
> pirated software. Last info I know is that they are in negotiation with
> the copyright holder.
I am not sure about this one but Amiga told it is licenced from the company
that was selling it.. (I think I read it somewhere. In amiga.com or
haage-partner.de ..And that company hold the coprights of the software..
If author of AmiTCP is correct ,, that company is the one to blame
>
>> AmigaOS4 is nearly ready.. It even has a full PPC TCP\IP stack that is
>> integrated into OS.. It downloads much faster then even MiamiDx...
>
> So what? MorphOS has AmiTCP/PPC. And speed isn't limited by the software
> but by the hardware.
Hey: my 060-50 is faster on the net then my 040-25.. and 040-25 is faster
than 030-50. So I think it is logical AmigaOS4 is faster on the net..
(I think (but am not sure) TCPI/ IP and LAN support is integrated into
setpatch in AmigaOS4
>
>> There is also a PPC filesystem.. The most modern in any platform.
>
> SFS/PPC for MorphOS. An no thanks I really don't install any version of
> FFS on my system. Every two days you have to validate your partitions just
> because some programme crashed and FFS can't handle an interrupt in
> writing to the disk.
>
It is fixed now.. The best you can get
Something Bill McEwen told::
"To those of you who continue to try and tear Amiga apart, it is time to stop. Amiga is moving forward, there are great things ahead, and for the first time in many years, the Amiga family will have new products, and choices.
I look forward to a great year.
Kindest regards,
Bill McEwen"
And what Amiga told to Morphos team::
The Morph team are very welcome to contract with Amiga on AmigaOS4, but they need to understand that they cannot make ultimatums on design and who Amiga is allowed to pick as contractors.
I think Morphos team are trying to make an alternative to AmigaOS4 or 5..
But they are just making a kernel for AmigaOS3 .. It would be better for
thgem if they build new ROMS for Amiga and programmed a completely new OS
that coul emulate AmigaOS. (They would have to licence 3.1 ROMs from Amiga.)
Regards
I think we should stop this discussion here.. I will not post any answers
again.. As some of the people here are getting angry..
THIS DISCUSSION IS OFF TOPIC... I just asked what would happen if someone programmed a perfect browser for Warpup and Morphos
and released it for free :)) lol